GPOYW
In which I pretend to be a bashful butch, when I am really a cocky femme.
Dyke Nodding Etiquette
As a highly community-seeking dyke-identified person, I get excited whenever I see another dyke in public. I want to let them know I see them there, and isn’t it awesome that we’re two dykes out in the world? I like to make the queer universe feel small in that nice, familiar way, rather than that claustrophobic oh-my-god-I’ve-already-dated-everyone-in-this-room way. Nodding at dykes is a way of recognizing and saying hello to them without having to come up with anything to say. Greetings can mean a lot of different things, though, so, in my experience, there’s some etiquette around it.
Warning, like most etiquette, some of these rules toe the sexism line, and when executed incorrectly can offend the sensibilities of those around you. In the case of rules that require the nodder to make arbitrary assumptions about the identity of the person they are nodding at, I will try to explain why these distinctions are necessary. None of these are absolute, they are simply my observations.
So you’re are a dyke and you’re walking around a heterocentric area and you spot *gasp* another dyke! You’re excited, but you don’t want to lose your mind because you don’t want to look like a creep, and you do not want this other dyke to think you’re hitting on hir. So you collect yourself, and calmly, as you walk past one another, give this other dyke a nod.
First thing’s first: make sure as you are nodding that you are giving this dyke enough room to return the nod without breaking hir neck. You must also gauge your distance so that you are not so far away that the other dyke cannot see that you are nodding at hir, or worse, so that you both get your nod over with but you still have yards left to traverse before you have passed one another. These rules follow standard greeting-an-acquaintance-in-a-high-school-hallway timing. If you are in a stationary encounter with a dyke, you have to be the judge. Some options for stationary nodding include waiting until one of you is about to leave, nodding and then avoiding further eye contact, and nodding and then employing a friendly smile at all subsequent eye contacts.
Now to the potentially offensive stuff:
When to nod upward:
- If the other dyke is andro/butch similarly to you.
Why: this is “bro” nod. Not only are you demonstrating your dyke solidarity, you are demonstrating you andro/butch understanding of one another. I don’t always understand butch experience, but I like bro nods because they are usually curt, involve just the tiniest bit of grandstanding, and show that butches are willing to build community with me. - If the other dyke is in your age bracket.
Why: this is a peer nod. It says, hey, we’re on even ground. If you weren’t a stranger, we would probably chill. - If you feel like you’ve noticed a dyke who doesn’t get read as a dyke a lot.
Why: this is a recognition nod. It says, hey you, I see you there. Even though you’re not always recognized, you’re not invisible, and I can tell that you’re part of my community. I have friends who don’t get nodded at enough; this type of nod can really make their day. - If you are femme or femme-appearing.
Why: this is a preemptive strike nod. Many femmes and femme-appearing dykes don’t get noticed as quickly because not all dykes know how to see them. This occasional invisibility means that femmes get to do whatever they want to make sure the other dyke knows what’s going on. Femmes nodding at femmes use femme solidarity nods too.
When to nod downward:
- If you are butch/andro in appearance and the other dyke is butcher than you in a way that you feel is significant and noticeable.
Why: this is a deferential nod. You’re not trying to challenge the dominance of this bull-dagger. You’re welcome to nod upward if you are trying to indicate that you two are matched or if you are in defiance. - If you are butch/andro in appearance and the other dyke is femme.
Why: this is an I-see-you-and-I-am-not-objectifying-you nod. This is perhaps the most important rule there is. Femmes deal with skeezy recognition from all kinds of people all the time, and slimy, leery butches are no exception. Nodding downward is a great way to show this femme that you see her and are glad you’re not the only dyke in the space and that you don’t think that means she owes you any of her time or attention beyond a reciprocal nod. - If the other dyke is in an age bracket more senior than yours.
Why: this is a hats-off-to-you nod. Older dykes paved the way for you to be the dyke you are today, and they deserve your respect for that. The more badass the older dyke, the deeper and more sincere your nod should be. It’s almost like bowing.
When to smile:
- A friendly smile: whenever you like. These are always appropriate.
- A winning smile: if the dyke you’re nodding at is cute. A winning smile is how you can turn your greeting into an invitation to come talk to you. Mouthing “hi” is another good way to let the person know that you’re interested without invading their space.
- A cocky smile: pretty much never, particularly not if you’re nodding upward and particularly not if the person is femme-appearing. It’s a really good way to disgust or creep out the dyke you’re nodding at.
Actions to avoid:
- Being sketchy or objectifying towards femmes (or really anyone): I feel like I can’t say this enough times. Femmes put up with a lot of crap being out in public. Don’t add to that. They’re not available to every butch who has enough gaydar to realize they’re queer.
- Trying too hard: if the dyke you’re trying to nod at isn’t trying to nod back, don’t force it. I personally think it’s rude, but people are in public, and not everyone is as community-seeking as I am.
- Bobbing your head while nodding: this is just another way to be a sketch ball with your nodding. Any kind of come-hither movement takes your nod out of the greeting category and into the hitting-on and possibly-encroaching-upon-the-safety-of category. If you’re hitting on people in large public settings, that is your business; it is not part of the etiquette that I am laying out, and when you get slapped, you will not get to complain to me. The dyke nod is a simple up-down-stop movement, or a down-up-stop; it is not and up-further back-down-further down-greasy smile movement.
If anyone has any additions or questions, my ask box is always open to you. Otherwise, happy nodding!
Love and recognition,
Enoch
Some (more) thoughts on butch/femme dynamics
I keep getting approached by butch girls who are shocked because I don’t date femmes. They are so swamped by heteronorms/homonorms that they are angry and maybe even a bit sad about my identity and whom I choose to date. I used to strongly dislike the word butch, I really did (probably because I saw so many bad examples of it). But, I’ve learned to embrace it and I’ve learned how it might not entirely mold me but it contributes to who I am. It seems like I’m going back on my words just to fit in, take it as you want, while this word may not be the definition for who I am, I know what it means. I know what the word entails, just like the word queer. Butch is more than just your gender expression, it’s your community’s history and evolution, revolution. Queer is more than just your sexual orientation, it’s about your personal history and journey. I don’t simply just use these two terms to define my characteristics, they’re a part of the map legend I’ve created. It means something, not always entirely drawn to scale but it’s there and it means something. And how does all of this link back to my dating choices? I feel more connection with butch women or people who identify with butch; and no, it’s not just because of their boxers or their hair, their style or their interests, it’s their history. And I’m even more fascinated when someone who identifies with butch takes it beyond their displayed masculinities, because it means they know something. Even with saying that, I feel like I still haven’t fully explained it. So when someone comes up to me filled with homonormatives and asks why I don’t date femmes and tell me that it’s “taboo” to date another butch identified person, well, hey, being butch is already considered a taboo, why not double the dosage? It actually looks very pleasing to the eye.
I also have to wonder what “people think” about two femmes dating each other. Perhaps they’re not as threatened by the femininity (rather than the masculinity of two butches), because femininity is seen as ‘lesser’ (in its own respects). I don’t really know what I’m going on here, but eh.
I’ve encountered a lot of that kind of homophobia in some of the circles I run in, and it always makes me angry. It’s as though there’s a population of butches somewhere setting the rules for the rest of us, making it look exactly like the straight world we thought we’d stopped trying to blend into. In this little hetero-homonormative gay female world, the butches are the men and the femmes are the women (there are no other genders. Sometimes you get recognition for femme aggressives, and they’re allowed to be fluid because they’re like straight women with short hair cuts who don’t shave, other straight folks don’t know they’re straight until they see them making out with their boyfriends, and then they get confused). In this way, the butch/femme dynamic is the most privileged, most visible, and most acceptable because it is the straight one. Next comes femme/femme because that, like lesbian porn that’s actually made for straight men, is hot; it’s two women. Then is butch/butch. *In some spaces, these are actually called faggy relationships, and the bois who enter them are fags.* Femme aggressives get to date whomever they want because if they date a butch, their femme side will come out and it’ll be butch/femme and if they date a femme, their AG side will come out and it’ll be butch/femme. Mostly, though, I think they have permission because whoever made the rules doesn’t really understand femme aggressives. I’ve actually heard these rules spoken to me, sometimes with additional rules or opinions, such as “all butches are stone tops, all femmes are bottoms, and only femme aggressives are switches” and “AG’s don’t date AG’s, that’s gay, that’s wrong.” I’m horrified to hear LGBT folks call something that is “gay” wrong.
What makes me sadder, though, is that since my transition I’ve dated almost no butch or butch-appearing people. There have been a few, but for the most part, I’ve gone from dating almost exclusively butches to dating almost exclusively femmes and femme-appearing people. I know that it’s not a shift in my attractions, because I have always been attracted to a wide scope of queer female identities, so I blame this norm that so many of us adhere to, either because we actually believe it or because we think we’re the only ones who don’t. I get intimidated by the idea of hitting on butches now, and I imagine that they get likewise intimidated because few ever do (I’ve heard a few other butches with similar laments, but it seems none of us are interested in each other, just theoretical other butches I guess) I’m always proud to see a butch/butch couple because I know that it’s harder, at least in the circles I’m part of, to have the courage to hit on another butch.
Still, for me, this idea of butches “knowing more” or “knowing something” about queerness that femmes don’t is selling femmes and the role of femmes in queer history short. Femme-appearing queer females know things that butch-appearing people may never learn. I know that’s not what you meant, I just wanted to put that out there.
What you did mean is that butches who know that butchness is more than just a style know something, and I agree. Butch is more than an attitude too, I think all identities are. I’m infatuated both with people whose gendering (butch is not necessarily a gender identity, but I think it’s always a gendering characteristic) comes so naturally to them that they just exude it in everything they do and people whose gendering is clearly chosen and carefully, consciously constructed.
I think I reblog a lot of what you post, because you have such great stuff to say.
I was wondering - do you encounter more rigid ‘gender stereotypes’ from self-assigned butches or femmes?
Thanks! My experience is that it comes from all sides. I think we all, including me (gasp) sell into some butch/femme bullshit if that’s how our relationships end up looking and sometimes it’s hard to separate what just happens from what we’ve subconsciously enforced. I’ve had a little bit of experience in this, but most of what I think on this subject comes from having heard a lot of not-so-pleasant stories from friends and people in my communities. I’m honest, I’ve heard particularly bad ones about butches (and sometimes specifically transmen). I think this happens for a couple of reasons, which I will list, but as you’re reading this list, please keep in mind that this does not refer to all butches, just my personal and learned experience of oppressive and sexist butches.
- sexist butches are sexist and even if they identify as women, still believe that masculinity is more powerful and/or superior to femininity and that the masculine person in the relationship gets all the control. The idea is that no matter the actual genders of the people involved, there will always be a person who plays the role of the man and a person who plays the role of the woman.
- sexist butches can play the visibility card. This is also known as the queerer-than-thou card, or the without-me-no-one-would-know-you-were-gay card, or the life-is-harder-for-me-because-I-have-to-deal-with-flack-for-my-appearance card, or the I-transgress-gender-stereotypes-and-you-don’t-even-though-you-probably-could-force-yourself-to-therefore-you’re-not-really-queer-and-I-can-treat-you-like-the-unliberated-woman-you’ve-chosen-to-be card. It’s gross. They belittle and devalue femmes because they don’t understand that queer femininity is just as transgressive as queer masculinity, there’s just a different way of going about it. They don’t recognize that femmes have to go through a lot of shit that butches never have to deal with, like people denying their queerness, or straight men getting angry when their advances are rebuffed. They therefore expect their femmes to defer to them on all matters queer, or to rely on them to validate their queerness.
- some sexist butches are pretty homophobic, like the ones who told me the rules I talked about.
- sexist butch tops do not value the sexual contributions of their femme bottoms. This is mysterious to me because while the top is doing all that “work,” think about what the bottom is enduring. Think about all the crazy, incredible, courageous intensity that that bottom’s body can withstand. Still, somehow, I hear a lot of tops not respecting their bottoms and a lot of bottoms who feel they are not recognized for what they do. It creates a hierarchy in sex that can leak into other areas of a relationship.
- sexist transmen (oh god, I do not want this to get misquoted anywhere. THIS IS NOT REFERRING TO ALL TRANSMEN, JUST THE ONES I’VE ENCOUNTERED WHO THINK IT’S OK TO NOT EXAMINE THEIR PRIVILEGE) don’t understand that male privilege is a harmful and oppressive source of power and start to feel that it’s their entitlement. In their lack of understanding of what manhood truly is, and their insecurity in their own manhood, some sexist transmen claim that they need to be “treated like men” and their way of being treated like men is to be treated as all-knowing and all-powerful. To them, this is the only way to show them that you respect their identity. Theirs is a regressive masculinity. I’ve literally been in spaces where I’ve had to clean up the emotional and political shambles that a sexist transman who was the only visible example of someone with an identity like mine had left behind.
Still, it’s important to recognize that it’s not just butches doing this. I’ve met femmes who expect this behavior from their butches and probably manage to condition butches to believe that this is acceptable, and in some cases necessary, behavior. Sexism flows in many directions.
What’s your experience?
Source: tranqualizer
Q:Definitely not my intentions to say that butch identifying people are all knowing, that would further fuel the homonormatives we have in our communities. All around, my original post was made with good intentions, not meant to be exclusive or one up anyone else. And I definitely agree with your point: femmes know things that butches don't, and vice versa. I think that's the biggest distinguishing point that leads people to identifying they way they do.
Word, when I first started writing that post I thought you were, but quickly realized I was wrong. I really appreciated the message in your post. Still wanted to make the point though.
Also, I never thought about butch and femme identities springing from that kind of knowledge. I think in some senses you’re right. Aside from my very perceptible femininity, I often have trouble justifying my femme identity to people, I guess part of that is because I don’t really have the knowledge or experience of a traditional femme. I’m closer to having the knowledge of a traditional butch, but I don’t identify as butch, I’m just read that way a lot. I describe this as butch-appearing. Sometime I slip out of identifying as femme because the only way I can explain it is “freedom.” I felt very trapped and censored when I tried to be butch. But I think actually it was that I was trapped and censored in masculinity, because I play butchness quite well and enjoy it a lot of the time. We’re not really taught to make that distinction, are we? The best terminology I’ve ever heard surrounding a similar gendering was when a person described herself to me as “femme aggress in boi clothes.” I like it because, as you pointed out, it recognizes that butch is more than just the clothes you wear. I guess I have a little more thinking to do about my own butch and femme identifications.
Some thoughts on butch/femme dynamics
I keep getting approached by butch girls who are shocked because I don’t date femmes. They are so swamped by heteronorms/homonorms that they are angry and maybe even a bit sad about my identity and whom I choose to date. I used to strongly dislike the word butch, I really did (probably because I saw so many bad examples of it). But, I’ve learned to embrace it and I’ve learned how it might not entirely mold me but it contributes to who I am. It seems like I’m going back on my words just to fit in, take it as you want, while this word may not be the definition for who I am, I know what it means. I know what the word entails, just like the word queer. Butch is more than just your gender expression, it’s your community’s history and evolution, revolution. Queer is more than just your sexual orientation, it’s about your personal history and journey. I don’t simply just use these two terms to define my characteristics, they’re a part of the map legend I’ve created. It means something, not always entirely drawn to scale but it’s there and it means something. And how does all of this link back to my dating choices? I feel more connection with butch women or people who identify with butch; and no, it’s not just because of their boxers or their hair, their style or their interests, it’s their history. And I’m even more fascinated when someone who identifies with butch takes it beyond their displayed masculinities, because it means they know something. Even with saying that, I feel like I still haven’t fully explained it. So when someone comes up to me filled with homonormatives and asks why I don’t date femmes and tell me that it’s “taboo” to date another butch identified person, well, hey, being butch is already considered a taboo, why not double the dosage? It actually looks very pleasing to the eye.
I also have to wonder what “people think” about two femmes dating each other. Perhaps they’re not as threatened by the femininity (rather than the masculinity of two butches), because femininity is seen as ‘lesser’ (in its own respects). I don’t really know what I’m going on here, but eh.
I’ve encountered a lot of that kind of homophobia in some of the circles I run in, and it always makes me angry. It’s as though there’s a population of butches somewhere setting the rules for the rest of us, making it look exactly like the straight world we thought we’d stopped trying to blend into. In this little hetero-homonormative gay female world, the butches are the men and the femmes are the women (there are no other genders. Sometimes you get recognition for femme aggressives, and they’re allowed to be fluid because they’re like straight women with short hair cuts who don’t shave, other straight folks don’t know they’re straight until they see them making out with their boyfriends, and then they get confused). In this way, the butch/femme dynamic is the most privileged, most visible, and most acceptable because it is the straight one. Next comes femme/femme because that, like lesbian porn that’s actually made for straight men, is hot; it’s two women. Then is butch/butch. *In some spaces, these are actually called faggy relationships, and the bois who enter them are fags.* Femme aggressives get to date whomever they want because if they date a butch, their femme side will come out and it’ll be butch/femme and if they date a femme, their AG side will come out and it’ll be butch/femme. Mostly, though, I think they have permission because whoever made the rules doesn’t really understand femme aggressives. I’ve actually heard these rules spoken to me, sometimes with additional rules or opinions, such as “all butches are stone tops, all femmes are bottoms, and only femme aggressives are switches” and “AG’s don’t date AG’s, that’s gay, that’s wrong.” I’m horrified to hear LGBT folks call something that is “gay” wrong.
What makes me sadder, though, is that since my transition I’ve dated almost no butch or butch-appearing people. There have been a few, but for the most part, I’ve gone from dating almost exclusively butches to dating almost exclusively femmes and femme-appearing people. I know that it’s not a shift in my attractions, because I have always been attracted to a wide scope of queer female identities, so I blame this norm that so many of us adhere to, either because we actually believe it or because we think we’re the only ones who don’t. I get intimidated by the idea of hitting on butches now, and I imagine that they get likewise intimidated because few ever do (I’ve heard a few other butches with similar laments, but it seems none of us are interested in each other, just theoretical other butches I guess) I’m always proud to see a butch/butch couple because I know that it’s harder, at least in the circles I’m part of, to have the courage to hit on another butch.
Still, for me, this idea of butches “knowing more” or “knowing something” about queerness that femmes don’t is selling femmes and the role of femmes in queer history short. Femme-appearing queer females know things that butch-appearing people may never learn. I know that’s not what you meant, I just wanted to put that out there.
What you did mean is that butches who know that butchness is more than just a style know something, and I agree. Butch is more than an attitude too, I think all identities are. I’m infatuated both with people whose gendering (butch is not necessarily a gender identity, but I think it’s always a gendering characteristic) comes so naturally to them that they just exude it in everything they do and people whose gendering is clearly chosen and carefully, consciously constructed.
Source: tranqualizer
